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solique




PostSubject: Quakers   9/5/2014, 13:56

Does anyone know much about the Quakers? They believe in seeing the light in everyone, and at their meetings they sit in silence and wait for the spirit to speak through people if i remember rightly?
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Ed J

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PostSubject: Re: Quakers   9/6/2014, 10:05

Hi Solique,

Do you mean "the Quakers" that landed on Plymouth rock?

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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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solique




PostSubject: Re: Quakers   9/6/2014, 12:28

Ed, I don't know. What was that?
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Ed J

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PostSubject: Re: Quakers   9/8/2014, 04:22

Hi Solique,  (Link)

Among the Mayflower colonists were members of the Society of Friends, also known as the Quakers.

   f. Actually, the Mayflower colonists labeled 'Puritans' were primarily followers of the teachings of John Calvin, a French theologian and religious reformer who established his sect in Switzerland. The Society of Friends (Quakers) wasn't founded until 1652, some 30 years after the Mayflower landing, by English religious leader George Fox. Fox eventually made his way to America in the late 17th century, establishing a stronghold for Quakers in Maryland. Later, the Quakers would be firmly established in the colonies when William Penn founded Pennsylvania, though the colony was open to members of all religious sects.

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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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solique




PostSubject: Re: Quakers   9/8/2014, 09:51

I don't know (couldn't click the link - my security program wouldn't allow it for some reason).

The Quakers seem very spiritual to me, and not only do they seek the spirit in their meetings and listen to the spirit, but they also "see the light" in everyone.

I might try and find a video on them soon.
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BrianC

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PostSubject: Re: Quakers   10/15/2014, 13:53

Solique,

I don't now what to think about the Quakers. They got their name because they would start shaking (quaking) and fall down on the floor in their meetings, as if possessed. I've seen Charismatics/Pentecostals do this, too, when the "Holy Spirit" is taking control of them. They speak in tongues, too. I don't see those things happening anywhere in the Bible, though. In fact, I see Paul telling the Corinthians not to even speak in tongues like they're doing (gibberish or unknown languages). He says, "If you're going to speak in tongues, I wish you'd speak one intelligible word, like I do, rather than a whole paragraph the way you speak in tongues." The women were really getting into this and disrupting their gatherings. So he told the women to stop speaking in tongues in the meetings and just keep quiet, because it was too disruptive.

Neil T. Anderson has a couple of accounts in his books (like The Bondage Breaker) where he invites people to test their "spirit of tongues." That's the spirit that makes them quake/shake and fall down in seeming convulsions. He tells a few cases where he has people in his office and tests their spirit of tongues. He'll ask the spirit if it's the Holy Spirit who was in Christ, or if it is Christ. The spirit will possess the person and scream "NOOOOOOOOOOO! NO HIM!" Then the person will fall on the floor and grab their stomach and say, "Get this thing out of me!" I think Neil commands the demon out at that point. I haven't read that book in years, though.

I'm not willing to say every instance of people "quaking" is demonic. I just don't know. I've read tons of cases about speaking in tongues and people doing the falling-down thing. They're not pretty, usually, when someone who knows how to deal with demons comes against them. But maybe there are cases where it's okay.

From what I understand, the Pagan Roman Guards in Jesus' time were speaking in "tongues" in their guards meetings. Speaking in tongues was a Pagan deal. And it spread into Christianity when Pagans were converting to Christianity and bringing some of their beliefs and practices with them.

The tongues Paul used were actual language spoken on earth. He would speak in the language of the people before whom he was speaking. That makes totally sense, because tongues is used to communicate with people if you don't speak their language. Paul spoke a few languages, but not all of them in the area. So he was constantly speaking in tongues (in the languages of the people he was teaching). Foxx's Book of Martyrs has several cases of missionaries suddenly speaking in foreign tongues on their missions journeys. That's what real tongues is, from what I can tell. The gibbersh tongues or weird-language-that-no-one-understands tongues seems to be something different. One guy recorded some people at a Pentecostal church speaking in tongues. They had no idea he was recording them. He sent the tape to linguists to have it translated. They identified the language as a very rare African language spoken only by one small tribe. They translated it and the people were saying something like they hated Jesus, and down with God. Something bizarre like that.

Also, many people with a gift for seeing spirits, have walked into Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and physically seen demons all over the people and the ceiling. It's downright weird.

For me, I tend to steer clear of this stuff involving tongues and the whole "quaking" thing. I'm not going to judge it all as dysfunctional. Maybe some of it is God doing it. I really have no idea. I just choose to stay away from it due to what I've read or experienced with it.

Nice name, by the way.
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solique




PostSubject: Re: Quakers   10/17/2014, 21:40

Hi Brian.


Quote :
I don't now what to think about the Quakers. They got their name because they would start shaking (quaking) and fall down on the floor in their meetings, as if possessed.

I didn't know that, thanks.

Quote :
I've seen Charismatics/Pentecostals do this, too, when the "Holy Spirit" is taking control of them.


Hmm. Me too. I watched the "Andrew Strom" videos a while back, quite disturbing.

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They speak in tongues, too. I don't see those things happening anywhere in the Bible, though. In fact, I see Paul telling the Corinthians not to even speak in tongues like they're doing (gibberish or unknown languages). He says, "If you're going to speak in tongues, I wish you'd speak one intelligible word, like I do, rather than a whole paragraph the way you speak in tongues."

I think the speaking of tongues had a different meaning and purpose back then, and they were told to speak two or three at a time, and there needed to be an interpreter. Otherwise, they were told to speak to God in tongues privately (Do I have that right? I haven't looked at those particular scriptures in a while).

Quote :
Neil T. Anderson has a couple of accounts in his books (like The Bondage Breaker) where he invites people to test their "spirit of tongues." That's the spirit that makes them quake/shake and fall down in seeming convulsions.

"Quake and shake".. hmmm. I experience God as peaceful and calming.

Quote :
He tells a few cases where he has people in his office and tests their spirit of tongues. He'll ask the spirit if it's the Holy Spirit who was in Christ, or if it is Christ. The spirit will possess the person and scream "NOOOOOOOOOOO! NO HIM!" Then the person will fall on the floor and grab their stomach and say, "Get this thing out of me!" I think Neil commands the demon out at that point. I haven't read that book in years, though.

Interesting.

Quote :
The tongues Paul used were actual language spoken on earth. He would speak in the language of the people before whom he was speaking. That makes totally sense, because tongues is used to communicate with people if you don't speak their language. Paul spoke a few languages, but not all of them in the area. So he was constantly speaking in tongues (in the languages of the people he was teaching). Foxx's Book of Martyrs has several cases of missionaries suddenly speaking in foreign tongues on their missions journeys. That's what real tongues is, from what I can tell. The gibbersh tongues or weird-language-that-no-one-understands tongues seems to be something different.

Yes.

Quote :
One guy recorded some people at a Pentecostal church speaking in tongues. They had no idea he was recording them. He sent the tape to linguists to have it translated. They identified the language as a very rare African language spoken only by one small tribe. They translated it and the people were saying something like they hated Jesus, and down with God. Something bizarre like that.

Really?
Do you know where I can find that account?


Quote :
Also, many people with a gift for seeing spirits, have walked into Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and physically seen demons all over the people and the ceiling. It's downright weird.

Creepy.

Quote :
For me, I tend to steer clear of this stuff involving tongues and the whole "quaking" thing. I'm not going to judge it all as dysfunctional. Maybe some of it is God doing it. I really have no idea. I just choose to stay away from it due to what I've read or experienced with it.

I was not aware the Quakers did that. All I knew about them was they "see the light" in everyone, and wait for the spirit to speak at their meetings. I'll need to look more into them. I'll post something here when I find out more. Thanks for your input though.

Quote :
Nice name, by the way.

Thanks. It's a made up word :)
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BrianC

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PostSubject: Re: Quakers   10/18/2014, 06:31

solique wrote:
Hi Brian.
Quote :

I think the speaking of tongues had a different meaning and purpose back then, and they were told to speak two or three at a time, and there needed to be an interpreter. Otherwise, they were told to speak to God in tongues privately (Do I have that right? I haven't looked at those particular scriptures in a while).
Everyone has to come to their own conclusions on this stuff. In my opinion, there is always a purpose for each gift. And the purpose of a gift is not to keep it, but to give it away (a selfless act).

There were tons of languages spoken in a single city back then. At the beginning of Acts, we see something like 11 languages listed for the people hearing Peter prophecy in tongues, and they all hear him in their own language. In other words, Peter was speaking one language, whatever that may be, but they were hearing him in a different language. On Paul's list of gifts of the spirit in 1 Corinthians 12, that one is called "Interpretation of Tongues." In other words, God gave everyone listening to Peter a gift of interpreting what he was saying in his language. Isn't it interesting that non-believers were experiencing a gift of the spirit? I think many Christians are shortsighted when they think Christians are the only ones who can enjoy spiritual gifts. So, in this instance, the gift was aiding in communication so that the message could be spread. I think God was gifting it to these people, because He knew they had ears to hear and wanted to hear this message. Their hearts were truly searching for it--searching for freedom. I'm not sure if non-Christians can manifest understanding other language (interpretation of tongues). I haven't studied that one. I do know that some gurus in other countries can do amazing things that sound exactly like gifts of the spirit. I don't believe they're counterfeit either, because when used, they're truly attempting to help people out of unconditional love. That's not to say that all of them have good motives. I'm sure there are lots of supposed gurus who aren't connected with God.

Now, notice there's a separate spiritual gift on Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 12 called "Speaking in Tongues". Paul used to do this a lot, because he was constantly going to several different cities and countries telling about how salvation had come. He probably spoke a few language, because his home town of Tarsus was said to have surpassed all other cities in regard to knowledge and universities. They were very well educated. Even the uneducated usually spoke a few languages because it was necessary back then to be able to make it in a city with multiple languages. But Paul had something different. He spoke in other people's languages without having studied them. This gift was for the purpose of sharing the good news to people who were searching for it. So again, we see a selfless purpose in this gift. Paul could understand them, too, so he also had the interpretation of tongues gift.

Regarding the passage you're referring to in 1 Corinthians about speaking in tongues, I recommend a write-up by Ellis Skolfield explaining that passage. It's in his book Demons in the Church on page 62. Here's a link:
http://www.ellisskolfield.com/pdf/DITC.pdf

He digs down into the passage exegetically to show the misunderstanding. It shows us how easy it is to misunderstand a passage in the Bible. If you read that book, you'll see a lot about head-coverings, because that's what Paul told the Corinthians to do to take care of the tongues spirit, more or less. That was a cultural thing back then that a married woman would do. The Jews were told to wear head-coverings, too. But each situation is different and each culture is different. The head-covering thing can work. It's not a requirement, of course, but apparently it works from all of the accounts you'll see in that book. There are other ways to get the same effect, too. What I just typed probably won't make sense unless you've read the book, so, I apologize for that.

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Quote :
One guy recorded some people at a Pentecostal church speaking in tongues. They had no idea he was recording them. He sent the tape to linguists to have it translated. They identified the language as a very rare African language spoken only by one small tribe. They translated it and the people were saying something like they hated Jesus, and down with God. Something bizarre like that.

Really?
Do you know where I can find that account?

Unfortunately, no. I need to contact my friend to see if he can find that account again. I'm not sure where or how he came across that one.

Quote :

Quote :
For me, I tend to steer clear of this stuff involving tongues and the whole "quaking" thing. I'm not going to judge it all as dysfunctional. Maybe some of it is God doing it. I really have no idea. I just choose to stay away from it due to what I've read or experienced with it.

I was not aware the Quakers did that. All I knew about them was they "see the light" in everyone, and wait for the spirit to speak at their meetings. I'll need to look more into them. I'll post something here when I find out more. Thanks for your input though.

Yeah, I'd be interested to hear what you find out. I can only speak from what I know of tongues, Charismatics, and Pentecostals. I don't know much about the Quakers, really.
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solique




PostSubject: Re: Quakers   11/5/2014, 17:27

Thanks Brian, yes I'll look into that.
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